Curse

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Suggestions for next update(s)

• Ability to EDIT already made PVP Characters, possibly add an EDIT button/option on the character select screen and this would allow you to edit your PVP character instead of deleting that character and remaking from scratch which is a time consuming if all you need is to change a rune, armor or an item for that character.

• Ability to cycle through 4 or 5 Skill bars, its annoying and tedious having to switch out skills so add the ability to cycle through the skill bar with added up and down arrows where you could save previous PVE or PVP templates. Adjusting your hero stats would have to be done manually still but this would save a bunch of time where going through the skill list is quite a long process. I'm NOT saying add more skills to use in PVE/PVP but you have your 8 skills in your skill bar and there would be a up/down arrow allowing you to move to a BLANK Skillbar, moving the arrow up would reveal your previous skill bar setting. The ability to move skillbars up or down would be locked until moving to a town/rest area in the same manner adjusting characters stats is locked.

• PVP and PVE items need to be balanced out, in my opinion no PVE item should be more powerful than what’s available on the PVP character selection screen. Lieutenant’s helm for example needs to either have its stats changed in PVE or if you have no problem with how it works add it to the PVP warrior selection of items. Same go for special shields, +30 health -2 damage at all times, these should be available to PVP characters or people should have the ability to buy upgrades at Balthazar priest for these better items. From my perspective Guild Wars PVP was never about Items/gear overpowering opponents but SKILL so its strange with the Lieutenant’s helm and some of the green items popping up that there are items that truly shift Guild Wars PVP to a more World of Warcraft approach (WOW is all about GEAR allowing you to be the best not actually SKILL). So IMO if it’s available in PVE make it available EASILY without farming for PVP characters.

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

so in short

PVE items should be no better than PVP, those green items for PVE should have something similair stats wise added to the PVP character creation menu

Favourites or saved skill bar so switching to different builds isnt so time consuming and tedious

Editable already created PVP characters from the character select menu to make it easier swapping out an item or a rune

Loviatar · Feb 23, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

there is no need to double post to explain your post.

want a special pvE item?

go PVE it

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

sorry for double posting just made it shorter and instead of just saying bump

As for wanting a PVE item, Guild Wars from my perspective has never been about GEAR or FARMING allowing you to do well in PVP But skills so when Gear like the Lieutenants helm enters the picture or some of the Green items +30 health -2 shield unconditional then I believe those items should be available on the PVP creation menu as well. Guild Wars is nicely setup from the standpoint that you can start playing right away and not be at a huge disadvantage from those playing for a long time

World of Warcraft on the other hand is all about better Gear overpowering your opponents NOT skills so I'd like to NOT see Guild Wars go down that road and stick to the formula they've had from the start which is no farming and fast PVP without disadvantage. IF they want add those better items at the Balthazar priests for upgrades, they'd be much easier to aquire that way and wouldn't require you to farm PVE. I could care less of how these items looked, keep PVE items flashy and better looking but have the PVP with similair stats, never allow the PVE side to have better items than PVP and vice versa.

Thanks

Blair46 · Feb 23, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I like the skillbar idea, but the fact you dislike the pve gear is just stupid in my opinion. Green items and collector items that you seem are unfair, well, you can always gather them in PvE and then put them into your storage so your PvP char can have access to them. Not only that, but green items aren't that different from collector and modified pvp weapons and such. Since you can unlock the perfect +30 health and other such mods, the weapons aren't even that different from eachother. Whereas in World of Warcraft, weapons and armor are so completely different at the end game, it all means that you have to have the best of everything in order to compete in the high-level pvp.

The thing about Guild Wars though, is that the high-level weapons and armour are quite similar with the max damage, max armor, mods, etc. Also, since the skillbar is only limited to 8 instead of the unlimited skillbar you have in WoW, the balanced end-game pvp/pve is something that World of Warcraft will never obtain.

To summarize, Guild Wars is definately not gear-based, since everything is for the most part balanced, and GW will never become gear-based, so there si nothing to worry about. PvE items aren't that much better than PvP items, and there is no real disadvantage to being a PvP char.

If there is an advantage in either PvE or PvP chars, the advantage is definately going to be tied to PvP chars, since you can make a character, test a build, change the build, unlock skills, delete the character and create a new one that can compete instantly is more of an advantage than having to create a PvE character and fight through or get a run for gold to the end-game in order to get to level 20 to be able to compete in anyway in PvP.

ArenaNET knows what they're doing, and the green items and other pve-centered gear do not unbalance the game in any way, shape or form.

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

PvE items aren't that much better than PvP items, and there is no real disadvantage to being a PvP char.

Leiutenants helm, cuts hex time in HALF, PVE only item! If you watch observer mode for GWCC you'll see thats all the warriors are wearing....well actually you can't see since they don't have their helm models on but thats what they are all using and its a PVE only item.

As for green items, I say make those +30 health -2 damage shields or %30 reduction in blindness time shields available to PVP characters or available through balthazar priests because It gets away from Guild Wars allowing you to have those items right away on the PVP creation menu or without trouble. ITs trouble getting those PVE Items, You either need to spend 100k for one of those shields or take your time farming this gets away from what Guild Wars PVP is all about.

Adding these items to the PVP creation menu won't take anything away from PVE, people still buy 15k armor tho Droks armor is exactly the same stats wise...PVE players TEND to like flashy and better looking items

Loviatar · Feb 23, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solange

Leiutenants helm, cuts hex time in HALF, PVE only item! If you watch observer mode for GWCC you'll see thats all the warriors are wearing....well actually you can't see since they don't have their helm models on but thats what they are all using and its a PVE only item.

did you notice that there is a substantial armor penalty with that helm?

Blair46 · Feb 23, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Adding those items to the pvp creation menu will actually take things away from the PvE portion of the game, since there will be less reason to even bother with PvE. 15k armor is more of a gold-sink than any particular reason to play through the PvE part of the game.

Since you seem so adament about the Leiutenants Helm, that thing doesn't even have full armor does it? It's a HoD helm. And about hexes, just make sure you use other things to combat it. Wastral's Worry (sp?), also casting a hex such as Phantom Pain will be even more useful, since it will become a Deep Wound in 5 seconds instead of 10. Also, with skills such as shatter delusions and plenty of other skills, that hex time cut in half is of no big importance.

Besides, you can get the Leiutenant's Helm and then just put it in storage so your pvp warrior can have access to it. I mean, collector items aren't made customized right when you purchase them.

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

did you notice that there is a substantial armor penalty with that helm?

Its only 20 armor level! and compaired to the time you're able to cut hexes out its a huge boost. Why the heck would the best PVP players in the world be using the helm if it had a substantial armor penalty???

Here are more threads on how overpowered this is and why people are saying PVE warriors are better than PVP

http://vnboards.ign.com/guild_wars_g...4904141/p1/?45

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=385402

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Besides, you can get the Leiutenant's Helm and then just put it in storage so your pvp warrior can have access to it.

Thats mine, notice it says CUSTOMIZED?

And before these green items from sorrows furnace were added people still played PVE didn't they? Factions also has a substantial amount of content based for Land control in PVE!

Burakus Lightwing · Feb 23, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solange

Suggestions for next update(s)

• PVP and PVE items need to be balanced out, in my opinion no PVE item should be more powerful than what’s available on the PVP character selection screen.

I actually disagree with you. I've always thought that PvE characters that have put in the time to get to level 20, get all of their attribute points and have found some good items along the way, should have a slight advantage over someone that just loaded up the game. In a short amount of time you can gain plenty of faction to unlock most everything that would be needed to make a good build. I PvE and PvP and IMO I think armor and weapons should be better for PvE players.

I will admit I like the PvE aspect of the game more but I still try to PvP on a regular basis with both PvP made characters and PvE characters brought into the PvP arenas.

Ristaron · Feb 23, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Any item you can get in PvE you can give to your PvP character (except armour).

Yes, you can access your coveted Lieutenant's Helm in PvP, just look more closely when making your character.

Other than that, the edit character function for PvP characters is a good idea which I completely support. I regularly remake the characters I have in my PvP slots, and it is a huge hassle. To be able to go in and edit just what I want would make me a happy camper.

Saved skillbars is already being considered by the devs, I think, but it's always good to make it clear that they are wanted. I'll sign for that too.

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Yes, you can access your coveted Lieutenant's Helm in PvP, just look more closely when making your character.

Its not there...???

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4369/gw1726np.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3064/gw1739si.jpg

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing

I actually disagree with you. I've always thought that PvE characters that have put in the time to get to level 20, get all of their attribute points and have found some good items along the way, should have a slight advantage over someone that just loaded up the game. In a short amount of time you can gain plenty of faction to unlock most everything that would be needed to make a good build. I PvE and PvP and IMO I think armor and weapons should be better for PvE players.

I will admit I like the PvE aspect of the game more but I still try to PvP on a regular basis with both PvP made characters and PvE characters brought into the PvP arenas.

Majority of Online RPGs have that gameplay route where you play through the game and the better items you acquire give you an upper hand over your opponents in PVP. Guild Wars isn't the norm however and I tend to look at Guild Wars PVP quick accessibility like a First person shooter. Battlefield 2 for example has a similar setup to Guild Wars PVP where you gain points the more you play which are used for more weapons for each class (They got medics, engineers, anti-tanks etc)

Your lack of gear won't be your downfall in GuildWars or Battlefield 2 but your lack of experience will and this is how I think it should be because it gets away from the NORM of past Online RPGs which had the people who spent the most amount of time farming or in WoWs case grinding http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&T=7140299&P=1 with the upper hand.

Veterans still have an advantage over new players but it won't be because of gear/items seperating them but actual gameplay experience of how those skills work and when to use them and overpowering PVE items (Which arent easily aquired) get away from that In my opinion.

Blair46 · Feb 23, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Oh, right, I forgot the helm counted as armor as I'm used to collectors giving weapons and off-hands.. Slip of the tongue.

Anyways, back to my main point, it only halves hexes on you, big deal, any good team will have a way to deal with warriors using proper hexes and other condition based degens, as well as slowing movement to take out these warriors. And AL 20 is quite lower compared to max armor helms, so it can be considered as substantial.

If you know how to play the game properly, you'd be able to come up with some quick counters to something as minor as this. This helmet isn't unbalanced at all since there are counters to it.

But, really, having PvE equipment that is different gives the PvE'ers something to strive for, and playing through the game to get access to this helmet is fine by me. I don't even use the helmet, and I don't see it as taking away from the game because PvP'ers cannot create a character with its exact stats.

Your opinion doesn't seem like it's going to be changing at all, no matter what anyone says, so I don't see this thread to be at all unique to the numerous HoD helm threads I've seen on GW forums. So what's the point in arguing about it here.

This helmet isn't unbalanced, it's just another aspect of the rock-paper-scissors gameplay of Guild Wars, just live with it, and change your build to adapt to it.

Still, seeing as how this game is very balanced in terms of the gear and skills, it's blatantly obvious that Guild Wars has retained its Skill > Time vision of competitive play.

Of course Veterans will have an advantage over new players, that's like any game. NHL'ers are better for the most part than the Juniors, people who are masters at Chess are going to beat the kids in the chess club any day.

But the way Guild Wars retains it's Skill > Time, is that sure there is a time factor, but people who are able to adapt and who are tactical can still beat a lot of people who have spent 5000 hours getting every skill, armor, weapon, etc. You need to spend time to learn the game, but you don't need to spend the time grinding and getting your level 78 wizard in order to be competitive.

The game's fine, learn to adapt.

Solange · Feb 23, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

The game's fine, learn to adapt.

Changes are a comin http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=387027

And the Lieutenants helm was mentioned so

fenix · Feb 23, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I agree with the editing the PvP premades. I asked Gaile if we could get this a few weeks ago but she didn't answer

We should be able to make our own Premades, that would make it so much better, and I don't think there is a single PvP player that would disagree.

Blair46 · Feb 24, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solange

Changes are a comin http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=387027

And the Lieutenants helm was mentioned so

so

? Okay, so you're taking the wussy way out again. That's like saying, well my mom thinks i'm cool, so

.

I'm personally glad there is something happening to the Lieutenant's Helm, but not because I think it's unbalanced. I personally never used it and never had much trouble facing warriors who did use it. The reason why i'm glad something is happening is so then I don't have to read as many threads of people bitching about it. You still have to read between the lines a bit and come to the conclusion that all I meant by my post is that people such as yourself need to stop complaining about "problems" in the metagame, when it takes less of an effort to come up with counters to builds and pve advantages such as lowering of hex duration.

Bitching takes way more energy than thinking outside the box, so do us all a favor and atleast attempt to adapt to an ever-changing game, because I can definately see you complaining about some item or skill in the future instead of thinking of some kind of counter.

Solange · Feb 24, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Am i bitching?

I'm just giving my opinion of what I think needs to be changed and providing my reasoning behind it

And Adapting? You could say the same during the time of Ranger Spirits blocking in Tombs and people are supposed to adapt to that? What generally happens if you want to see something changed (And this is the suggestions forum) is we give our opinions on changes and the developers think it over and if they see it as an issue they change it accordingly

I have no problems adapting to changes within the game as long as they are warranted and fair. These 3 topics I'm giving my opinion about are what I'd like to see changed, some people in this thread have agreed with SOME of them but obviously you just see all of it as bitching?

Chev of Hardass · Feb 24, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I thought customizing the Pre-Builds sounded like a stellar Idea. I'll bump your post if you bump mine.

And yes, I agree that PvP characters should have access to the same weapons, but PvE characters will always have an advantage.

For example I carry 4-5 shields depending on the situation that I may face. You just cannot do that with a PvP character.

Anyway, here is my post on the Pre-builds. maybe you can bump it for me.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=92170